An anonymous commenter has been leaving repeated comments on my abortion post. For a while I humored them. While I radically disagree with their point of view, I do respect their opinion. While they used their christian "right to admonish" by throwing in holier-than-thou attacks on me (in their words "you should be very ashamed of yourselves"), my little sister in Dallas and my dad in Cheyenne both came to my defense. Now, I must make a point here, both my dad and Sarah were McCain supporters. Well, here is how it went.
Anon: It was the Evangelical vote that put Obama over the top. So, thank you Casey family for helping usher in darker times.
As Christians you should be very ashamed of yourselves, as all Christians who chose "change" over Christ's teaching.
Love one another, yes. But God would have us stand on what He taught rather than sooth over people's feelings.
Obama is not going to change this country for the better, no matter how much you "believe" in him.
If the Evangelicals (the ones who say they are and the ones who are) would vote into office Godly men, yes abortion could be ENDED! IF we voted in Godly men our schools could once again teach Christ and the next generation would love, instead of hate.
But, as you can see, your pocket book won out, just like so many of those who say they love Jesus.
Sarah: Who are YOU to judge Mr.Casey's faith? Who are YOU to judge how Christian he is? From what I understand through everything I have studied in the Bible, we are NOT to judge. I am pleading that you spend some time catching up on 1Peter.
Why should he and other Christians who voted for president-elect Obama be "ashamed of themselves"? It is judgmental and unkind things, like you have posted yourself, that hurt our greater mission as bridge builders to help bring the community to a relationship with Christ. Christianity is INCLUSIVE and not exclusive....God loves everyone no matter who they choose to vote for and Mr.Casey DOES love God. Infact he helped lead me to God and I will be forever grateful. So please prayerfully consider what to post before you hurt the greater mission Jesus set us out to accomplish. Thank you.
Anon: AS a Christian brother and you as a sister, I have the right to admonish you for going agianst ALL that God teaches.
Reaching out is just fine, but acting like the sinner, to win them over is not. Jesus did not act like the people he reached out to, he told them they were wrong,(the people he drove out of the temple ring a bell?)
The people we are reaching for want love and support, but as much as they want that, the need to know right and wrong.
I do not appologize for stating the truth.
There is a big difference between judging someone, and showing them they are doing something wrong.
Sarah: When you said: "As Christians you should be very ashamed of yourselves, as all Christians who chose "change" over Christ's teaching. " AND "as you can see, your pocket book won out, just like so many of those who say they love Jesus."
You crossed the line from your own spiritual discernment to being judgmental. Keep in mind while I am not an Obama supporter I did not for a second judge or question Mr. Casey's Christianity. Marlin did not question Mr. Casey's faith either.
The definition of "admonish"- to counsel or warn in a good-natured manner.
That was not a warning or a reminder...nor was it in a good nature.
We as Christians should NEVER play the "holier than thou" card which you did when you QUESTIONED Mr. Casey's faith. As Christians we must stop trying to out-Christian each other. Christians have NO ROOM to act or feel superior.
Dad: Dear anon person: As the father of the author of this blog, allow me to share some reactions to your writings. While I know nothing about your life experiences, I know that Nic has experienced some of life's happenings that no one should ever deserve. Have you, sir, spent the night trying to sleep in a hospital chair praying that your wife and unborn child make it to see sunlight of another day? That was a conscious choice they made in taking that risk rather than taking the baby to insure the mother lived. And it was a significant risk they took. To imply that Nic does not understand the role of fighting abortion is very personal to him. With some humor, that decision then to protect life also is the source of daily discipline he has to administer. Additionally, if one grandmother of his had chosen to have the result of a rape aborted, then he nor I would be present. Abortion in (as you put it)the Casey family is an oft-considered/talked about issue. I respectfully agree with Sarah about the attitude of your admonishment seemingly slightly harsher than necessary. Nowhere do I see that the assignment of "shame" that you indicate Nic and his like-thinkers should have as necessary. Personally, I think you were wishing that all Christians, regardless of how they view life or whatever circumstances they have experienced, thought and reacted and voted identical to yourself. Sorry, Christians, like individuals in regular society, are not designed to be cookie cutter images of each other, or like one particular person. My next point is your use of "ALL" in refering to what God teaches. Frankly, that made me belch some bad gas. It also reminded me of the fact that Jesus didn't act out that kind of attitude with individuals. Respectfully, as we were raising our kids, we allowed them to come to different solutions, different processes, and encouraged them to think through tough questions without them being expected to replicate our exact thinking. They have each successfully learned that process (images of Is. 1:16)and the freedom to arrive at their choices. That means that his mom and I also entrusted God to reprimand, mold, protect, and guide each of them in their decisions. It seems that God has a historical past of being far more trustworthy in delivering guidance than any of us parents. My same thinking applies to this election. Alot of people I know and have incredible confidence voted opposite of me. In fact, our family (kids and us) split our votes with 2 couples on each side of the ticket. I also know each of their reasons, and NONE of them represent blind duplicate populist voting patterns. That alone earns my respect. Specifically, I know and respect Nic's faith. He has experienced more in a few years of marriage in making difficult decisions than most of us encounter in an entire lifetime. Perhaps each of us would be better to experience a desire to understand and walk a mile in their shoes first than to simply wag a pointed finger and go tsk, tsk. Sir anon, I wish you well. Probably, your value of a pro-life stance and mine match extremely close. However, "love one another" sometimes is painful and never is it automatically implanted that it would be convenient---if with a fellow Christian.
Anon: My point with this subject is that Christians who voted for this man that claims to be a Christian, did not look at the truth of the matter. They did not search out what what best for all concerned.
I may not think exactly like you or the Casey family, but as "Christains" we should be like minded. Knowing that this man is going to sign into law the "Freedom of Choice Act" the minute he gets in office was enough to make ANY person who believes shiver and weep. By voting this man into office, you have initaily signed the death warrent to millions more who don't have voices.
I commend Nic and his wife for keeping their son. He is a beautiful image of God. But sir, how many are now going to die because the Christain right did not get off their behinds and defeat this man?
That is where I was going with this post.
Yes, Nic is very capable to vote like he wants to, but when it brings this kind of horror, I say shame, shame, shame.
The people of Jeremiah's time didn't like his message either, but God sent it anyway.
I love my brothers and sisters, but can say very seriously that they did not do God's will when it came to voting for that person.
Now at this point, Sarah sent me a myspace message apologizing for fighting with this person on my blog. Personally, I found it amusing. (Call me shallow, but enjoy seeing the know-it-all personalities confronted.) But after three comments (filled with spite that I find damaging to the message of the gospels) I had enough. So, I told Sarah I would delete any future comments from Anonymous and left a final comment.
Me: Mr/Ms Anonymous, if I have any shame, I am ashamed that there are thousands of Christians (like yourself) preaching a message of fire, brimstone, condemnation, and wrath - a message that chases away those who may be desperately searching for God (and possibly searching for an alternative to abortion).
The "abortion is murder" message (while true) has never convinced anyone out of an abortion. Lovingly offering alternatives has. Your ban-abortion crusade, while noble, accomplishes nothing. It does nothing but turn hearts cold against the true hope we have in Christ.
While I appreciate (and commend) Christians who ardently oppose abortion. I believe there is a better way. We will more effectively save one child at at time than trying (and failing) to save them all.
But you can keep preaching shame if you want. We'll see how well that works for you.
But of course, Anonymous has to have the last word (I thought I was being nice). How dare there be any autonomy with in the body of Christ. How dare anyone disagree with her. Naturally (keeping my promise to Sarah) I deleted that comment. Anonymous posted yet another comment "Sad, Nic... Sad." I deleted that one as well. But, now (in their eyes) not only am I a pagan for voting for Obama, but now I have comitted the evil sin of censorship. She left on final comment (and by final, I promise I WILL delete any more comments regardless of content) : "Nic, I thought you believed in freedom of expresion? I guess not."
Get your own blog. How's that for freedom of expression.
Now that the exchange is over, I have a dilemma. In the first comment I deleted, Anonymous posted her belief that a message of love misrepresents the gospel and that the gospel message is one of fire and brimstone (according to John 3:16). I wholeheartedly believe that is the worst possible interpretation of that passage, and that she fails to understand that "gospel" means "good news" and not "go to Hell." It's probably a good thing that I deleted that comment, but part of me wishes I hadn't, just so others can see how gloriously wrong that point of view is.
I didn't permanently delete the comment (like I usually do). Does anyone know if it is possible to undelete a non-permanently deleted comment?